Well, "useful" in the sense that if there were no giant CRC project, at some point in the future there may be a separate LRT project, and it would be helpful to have some idea of a route already.

However, I think that LRT should be part of an arterial bridge project to handle local traffic between N. Portland, Hayden Island, and Vancouver, removing trips from I-5 and providing alternatives at a reasonable scale.

But all of the planning in this exercise will be linked to CRC-style automobile planning, which could affect route choice differently than arterial bridge-based automobile planning.

Of course automobile planning is for all people while LRT is for a tiny, highly subsidized, minority.

Bob, I haven't seen you criticize my latest page at PortlandFacts about the huge subsidies to transit while auto users actually pay more than their costs:

portlandfacts.com/Roads/RoadSubsidy.htm

Any comments?

Thanks
JK

It's off-topic for this thread, JK. Since you asked, my quick answer is that at first glance it looks like the usual apples-to-oranges cherry-picking to me, but I'll save that for a relevant discussion. Let's try to go at least 2 comments deep into this actual CRC thread without going further off-topic. Thanks.

automobile planning is for all people

"All" meaning the 60% - 70% of the population who have drivers licenses AND regular access to a car.

The other 30% to 40% apparently do not exist.

On topic: I agree that it's useful to talk about where light rail might go in Vancouver once extended there. But Bob's right: it's important to get the big project right before nailing down transit routes.

Douglas K. Says: (quoting JK):automobile planning is for all people

"All" meaning the 60% - 70% of the population who have drivers licenses AND regular access to a car.

The other 30% to 40% apparently do not exist.
JK: I guess you didn’t notice that that “other” 29% also use roads while they are in buses and taxis. (and it is 29%, not 40% - see factsheet.pdf from trimet which states: Most riders (71%) are choice riders: they have a car available or choose not to own one so they can ride TriMet. )

Many people use buses to get to MAX, and, although I said automobiles, trucks also use roads and EVERYONE uses the products hauled by truck.

Hence automobile planning is for all people, including trucks and buses and the people that benefit from them.

Douglas K. Says: it's important to get the big project right before nailing down transit routes
JK: And that is why the extreme cost of rail is important. Many more people would be served for the same amount of money on buses. Even more in cars. That is why road should come first.

Thanks
JK

JK:OOPs, sorry I just realized that the 29% number includes Trimet riders that “have a car available” and riders that “choose not to own one” (Trimet’s factsheet.pdf). So the real % of Trimet users that don’t have both “drivers licenses AND regular access to a car.” is far lower than 29%.

I’ll make an initial guess that the real number is 15%. I’m sure that Bob R. will post the real number. Or at least Trimet’s version of it.

Thanks
JK

JK:OOPs, sorry I just realized that the 29% number includes Trimet riders that “have a car available” and riders that “choose not to own one” (Trimet’s factsheet.pdf). So the real % of Trimet users that don’t have both “drivers licenses AND regular access to a car.” is far lower than 29%.

Or you missed the fact that Douglas said "the population". He did not say "TriMet riders".

Please keep this discussion generally-related to the CRC/light rail, thanks.

I am generally not in favor of a light rail line in conjunction with an arterial bridges corridor between Vancouver, Hayden Island and North Portland. I believe Jantzen Beach Big Box retail is a mistake for the Vancouver economy. Travel between Jantzen Beach and Vancouver for tax evasion shopping should be discouraged, period. Bring back the Jantzen Beach amusement park and the equivalent of the original interurban too.

Also in the holiday gift bag for Jim Karlock, Terry Parker, and others who insist on labeling bikers/transit users as tax sponges; you're moment is nigh - now presenting "Get Off My Roads"